Saurav Pathak, CPO of Bagisto

Episode Transcript

Introduction

Maria: Good evening, good morning, and good afternoon, wherever you are. We have attendees from India, Texas, Germany, and Nigeria. I’m glad we’re here today in such wonderful global company. I’m Maria, the CEO of Renegade Underdogs. Our Open Source Renegades Community collects success stories and case studies from speakers in the open source industry to provide knowledge on developing open source projects. Today, we will talk to Saurav Pathak, co-founder and CPO of Bagisto. Bagisto is an interesting example for us, as it’s a local open source product that found a good niche. It can compete in a very competitive market with competitors like Magento, WooCommerce, Shopify, and BigCommerce. Thank you for being with us today. Saurav, please introduce yourself.

Saurav Pathak: Hello Maria, thank you for having me here. It’s truly an honor to be on the podcast and share the story of Bagisto. I’m Saurav Pathak, the Chief Product Officer at Bagisto. Bagisto was founded by Jiten Swain, Mr. Vipin Sahu (the CEO of our parent company Webkul), and myself. The logo you see on my back is the Webkul Private Company logo. In short, Bagisto is an open source e-commerce platform built on Laravel, launched four years ago. Four years down the line, things are going pretty great. We’ve received a good response from the community and a huge number of adoptions worldwide. 

History and Idea of the Product

Maria: Originally, you worked with Webkul. Webkul is significant in the e-commerce market, providing plugins and add-ons for popular e-commerce platforms. Why did you decide to create your own e-commerce platform like Bagisto, rather than just maintaining Webkul? Also, what differentiates Bagisto from WooCommerce?

Saurav: First, I’d like to credit the founders of Webkul, Mr. Vipin Sahu, Mr. Vinay, and Prakash, for building this enterprise. Webkul is a major extension provider for over 22 e-commerce platforms, most of which are open source. With 12 years of experience in e-commerce and over 90,000 customers worldwide, including United Nations and Nokia, we’ve learned the pros and cons of various frameworks.

Our aim was to create a framework that is customizable, extendable, and not overloaded with unnecessary features. It should be easy for customers to navigate and use. These pain points led us to create Bagisto. We chose PHP for its large community, and within PHP, we focused on Laravel. Laravel, launched in 2011 by Taylor Otwell, was easy to use and had a strong developer community. In 2018, we noticed a gap in Laravel for e-commerce platforms, so we developed Bagisto to fill this void.

We launched Bagisto on October 30, 2018. Since then, it’s been well-received by the community. Regarding the difference between Bagisto and WooCommerce, they both are open-source applications but differ in their tech stack. Bagisto is built on Laravel, while WooCommerce is an extension of WordPress. WooCommerce benefited from the widespread use of WordPress, making it easier for users to adopt. Similarly, Laravel’s popularity made it easier for developers to customize and use Bagisto for their needs.

Target Audience

Maria: As far as I understand, Bagisto is not a no-code solution. If someone doesn’t know how to code in Laravel, they can’t create their web store, right?

Saurav: That’s partly true. One reason behind creating Bagisto was to cater to college graduates who understand basic MVC architecture but find it challenging to study entire platforms like Magento or WooCommerce. With Laravel, even those with a basic understanding of MVC architecture can start working on e-commerce solutions. The learning curve with Laravel is shorter. So, while Bagisto is not a 100% no-code platform, it’s easily adoptable by recent graduates who understand basic programming concepts and MVC architecture. They can start building on Bagisto with some basic knowledge.

Maria: So, who is your target audience? Are they developers or online store owners? Do store owners look for developers to use Bagisto, or do developers offer Bagisto as a solution to store owners?

Saurav: Bagisto targets both core developers and merchants. We’ve made the installation process simple. For example, platforms like cPanel offer Bagisto as a default service. Merchants with basic web hosting can easily install Bagisto with a one-click process in cPanel. This simplicity allows merchants to focus on building their products and categories for their online store. For developers, because it’s built on Laravel, it’s also accessible. We provide a developer guide for customization and have a supportive community for both merchants and developers. They can use our forum or support panel for assistance. This approach ensures a seamless experience for both merchants and developers using Bagisto.

Metrics

Maria: Do you know the exact number of users you have? It must be difficult to measure, especially for open-source software downloaded from various sources.

Saurav: It is indeed challenging to track the exact number of users for an open-source platform. You can’t embed a tracking code since everything is customizable and users might remove it. However, we do have some metrics. For instance, we’ve had over 75,000 downloads, currently around 78,000. Additionally, we use builtwith.com, a platform that provides tech stack reports for websites. According to their weekly reports, there are about 25,000 shops around the world running live on Bagisto. This number might be higher, but that’s the figure we have from BuiltWith and from customers who’ve approached us.

Maria: What other metrics do you use to measure your product and business success?

Saurav: We consider several metrics. On GitHub, stars are a significant indicator, and we have around 6,000 stars. We also have over 5,000 members in our forums and Facebook community who interact and build shops on Bagisto. Additionally, there are over 25,000 merchants using our platform. We’ve developed over 100 add-ons, and our third-party partners have created around 50 more. In terms of revenue, we’ve generated about $300,000 in annual recurring revenue for the last four years. These metrics help us gauge our growth and progress towards our goals. We also monitor our presence in the developer community and aim to increase involvement. Furthermore, we’ve received good reviews on Trustpilot, with over 350 positive reviews, which also serve as a growth parameter for Bagisto.

Monetization

Maria: It’s a good time to talk about monetization. Do you measure the dollars you earn, or do you have other metrics? I know Bagisto is distributed under the MIT license, and anybody can earn money from it. What about you? How do you monetize your product?

Saurav: In the open-source industry, many follow the Red Hat model, offering live streaming systems and priority support. We provide add-on services. For example, if you’re using Bagisto and need customization, we offer those services. We also have over 100 add-ons, some free and some paid, including unique models like multi-vendor and B2B marketplaces. These add-ons are a source of revenue. We also offer priority support and the option to hire core Bagisto developers. We’re planning to start offering certifications soon for a nominal fee. These certifications can be showcased on platforms like LinkedIn. So, these are various ways we generate revenue.

Maria: Speaking of plugins, do you take a commission from partners who provide plugins for Bagisto?

Saurav: Our partnership model is unique. We don’t charge any commission to list plugins on the Bagisto Marketplace. We help our partners sell their plugins without charging a commission. We promote their company and plugins on our social channels and blogs, still without any charges. Our goal is to involve more people and partners in the ecosystem rather than earning from every other way. Our monetization methods support the Bagisto repository and the people working on it. We don’t have a strict monetization policy for listing partnerships on Bagisto. We even refunded a small amount donated by a partner, encouraging them to use it for their projects or events related to Bagisto. We focus on building the Bagisto community and ecosystem, not just on making money from contributors or partnerships. We’ve been able to cover our basic needs and support the Bagisto team in a bootstrap manner without monetizing the partnership model or taking further donations.

Validation of the Idea

Maria: Can you tell us about the early days of the project? How long did you develop it before the first release, and did you start with an MVP?

Saurav: We worked for about five to six months before releasing the first version in 2018. Jiten Swain, our CTO, handled the technical aspects, and I focused on product and marketing. Initially, we concentrated on content marketing and educating the community through forums like Reddit and Y Combinator. I personally reached out to people, encouraging them to try our open-source platform. Our early strategy involved frequent small releases to address bugs and enhancements.

In those first few months, we were very focused on content marketing and minor feature development. I remember our first significant spike in traffic came from laravelnews.com. After several attempts to get featured, they finally published our project in March 2019. This exposure led to a rapid increase in GitHub stars and traffic. Our first paid module, a small version of a marketplace model, was purchased by a customer from Africa in April 2019. It took about a year to gain traction and our first paying customer.

Maria: When did you validate the interest in your project?

Saurav: The interest in Bagisto was validated with the spike in traffic from Laravel News and the marketplace. Our marketing strategy was heavily based on content creation. We focused on organic marketing, reaching out to people on various platforms and providing free demos. We rarely used paid marketing. I was determined to get Bagisto featured on Laravel News due to its relevance and domain ranking. It took about one and a half years of continuous content publishing and generating backlinks to rank Bagisto high on Google for the “Laravel e-commerce” keyword. This organic approach was crucial for us as a bootstrapped company, focusing on strategies that didn’t require significant financial investment.

Marketing on GitHub

Maria: Regarding promotion, how do you manage growth on GitHub? Do you use any tools to promote your project within GitHub?

Saurav: We haven’t used a lot of tools for promotion on GitHub, but we have focused on a few key aspects. First, we’ve created a comprehensive and user-friendly readme documentation on GitHub. This makes it easy for people to understand and browse through it. We also have precise development documentation hosted on GitHub.

We’ve been careful to include minimal content with precise tags on GitHub, targeting specific areas like e-commerce, headless commerce, PWAs, etc. Another key strategy has been our focus on regular releases. We’ve tried to keep the time interval between releases short, aiming to make a new release every 15 to 20 days. This approach helps in showing that our project is active, as users on GitHub often check the last commit history to determine if a project is still being maintained.

Additionally, we’re active in communities related to GitHub, like Facebook groups and forums, and on Reddit, where people discuss open source projects. We share the Bagisto repository link in these forums to attract more visitors.

I also regularly check GitHub Insights to track metrics like the number of unique visitors and clones made for our repository. This helps me understand how our repository is performing. We haven’t used any specific tools for promotion; our focus has been on maintaining a clean, precise, and active repository. With the continuous flow of issues and pull requests, it’s evident to visitors that Bagisto is an active and well-maintained repository, which encourages them to engage with and contribute to it.

Global Market and Localization

Maria: Is it important for Bagisto to go global, or do you focus on a specific market? Have you done any specific promotion for markets like the U.S.?

Saurav: Yes, we’ve made specific efforts to go global. One of the first things we noticed was the active Laravel community in the Middle East. From the start, Bagisto has been available in both left-to-right and right-to-left languages, catering to developers in the Middle East who might need right-to-left language support for their shops. This feature has been a default in Bagisto from the beginning.

Additionally, Bagisto is multilingual by default. It supports around 10 to 15 major languages like Portuguese, Spanish, German, etc., making it accessible worldwide.

We also developed plugins specific to particular continents. For example, in India, we created a plugin for the Razorpay payment gateway, popular in that region. Similarly, we identified popular payment and shipping integrations in different continents and developed corresponding plugins. This approach made it easier for shops in those regions to use Bagisto with local payment and shipping options.

Furthermore, we identified active community members from different regions and appointed them as Bagisto ambassadors. These ambassadors help locals in building their online shops and provide us with feedback and suggestions relevant to their region. Currently, we have ambassadors in seven different continents organizing events, building plugins, and promoting Bagisto locally. This strategy of going multilingual, appointing ambassadors, and building region-specific plugins has been key in targeting global communities.

Building Community

Maria: You’ve spoken a lot about the role of community in product growth. I believe that just having a Facebook group or a Slack channel isn’t enough to create a community. Can you share your experience in building this community from scratch?

Saurav: From my experience, trust and confidence in a product are crucial. From the start, we’ve focused on providing efficient support. We want our users to feel that if they get stuck, there’s someone at Bagisto ready to help them.

Initially, we set up an SLA (Service Level Agreement) of four to eight hours on our community forums. When people saw that their queries were being addressed promptly, they started to trust and build more with Bagisto. We’ve helped many merchants set up their online stores, providing them with free support for extended periods.

Support is key to building a community. If users are just using the core features of Bagisto and face issues, we don’t charge them for support. They can post their queries on our forum or Facebook community, and we provide prompt assistance.

Besides support, we involve the community in the development process. We often conduct polls on Facebook to gauge interest in new features. This makes our community feel involved and heard. We also recognize contributors by sharing their posts on social media and sending goodies as a token of appreciation.

These approaches have helped us build a strong community. It’s about more than just having a platform; it’s about actively engaging with and supporting your users, listening to their feedback, and involving them in the product’s development.

Support

Maria: Can you tell me about your support team and how you manage to handle queries from so many people?

Saurav: We have a Service Level Agreement (SLA) of four to eight hours to respond to queries. Initially, there were only one or two people handling support, but as the number of queries grew, we expanded the team. Now, we have five to seven people managing these queries. We’ve been able to maintain an average response time of four to five hours.

Maria: How do you manage all the requests coming from different channels like Facebook, forums, and Slack?

Saurav: Most queries come through Facebook, forums, and our support ticket system. We use an in-house ticket management solution called UVdesk, which is also open source. This system helps us efficiently manage support requests. Users have four channels to reach us: forums, the Facebook community, live chat on our website, and our support ticket system. Live chat is usually for less technical queries, while more complex issues requiring developer attention are handled through our ticket system. We use templates to gather necessary information from customers, which helps us identify and resolve issues more efficiently.

Maria: How do you handle support in different languages, particularly for users who don’t speak English?

Saurav: For support in languages other than English, we rely on our network of ambassadors and partners in different countries. While our primary support language is English, we use tools like Google Translate for text-based interactions. For calls with customers who don’t speak English, we connect them with partners or ambassadors who can communicate in their language. This approach helps us provide support to users from diverse linguistic backgrounds.

Tips for Open Source Entrepreneurs

Maria: Could you recommend some dos and don’ts for open source entrepreneurs who are just starting their journey?

Saurav: For anyone starting in open source, I emphasize the importance of community. My advice is always to take good care of your community because ultimately, it’s the community that propels your project forward. You might have created the project, but its growth and adoption depend on the community’s involvement and discussion. Treat your community as your own family, involve them in the development process, and work on the feedback they provide. This builds trust and confidence, encouraging more involvement, which is crucial for the success of any open source project.

As for what not to do, never ignore your community members. Be patient and understanding. While you can’t implement every single feature suggested by community members, it’s important to listen and consider their input. Open source projects aren’t like SaaS solutions where you can expect immediate financial returns. They require time to grow and evolve. Be gentle with your community members, and once your project gains some reputation, you can explore different avenues of monetization to sustain the project. This approach is essential for the survival and success of an open source project.

Maria: Thank you so much for this insightful discussion. Let’s see if we have any questions in the chat.

Q&A Session

Maria: To our attendees, please feel free to ask Saurav any questions about his experience. And a personal question from me, Saurav, is this your first entrepreneurial experience or have you had other projects before?

Saurav: After graduating, I started two startups with friends, but they failed. I was looking for a company where I could build and grow projects. That opportunity came at my current company, Webkul. I credit Mr. Vipin Sahu, CEO of Webkul, for giving me the chance to work on Bagisto. I’ve learned a lot from my past failures and I’m still learning. Every day brings new experiments and insights with Bagisto. It’s about continuously learning and trying new things.

Maria: We have a question about scaling up Bagisto. Can you share your plans for that?

Saurav: To scale Bagisto, we’ve focused on frequent releases, providing strong support to community members, building a robust community, and promoting the product on various platforms. The goal is to make people aware of Bagisto, regardless of immediate feedback or reviews. The more you engage with the community and promote your product, the more it scales. It’s about ensuring people are aware of Bagisto and considering it for their e-commerce solutions.

Maria: One more question is about any good practices you would like to share based on your experience.

Saurav: Good practices involve engaging with the community, being open to feedback, and continuously experimenting with the product. It’s important to stay open to learning and adapting, ensuring your product evolves with the needs of your users and market trends.

Maria: Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts. I wish you luck with Bagisto and look forward to possibly meeting again in the future to hear more about your progress.

Saurav: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my story. It’s been great discussing my experiences, and I look forward to possibly reconnecting in the future to update you on our progress with Bagisto.

Maria: Take care and goodbye. Thank you for your time.

Saurav: Thank you. Have a great day. Bye-bye.

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